REDietz

[MDawg]

Not shy about posting his real name Robert E Dietz, this old timer claims to have spent thousands of days in Vegas in the distant past but somehow never played any table games never won at any table games and never received any casino WIN statements for winning anything.

Completely in the dark as to now Vegas works, thinks casino WIN statements are meaningless or may be altered by casino hosts.

[redietz]

Not shy about posting his real name Robert E Dietz, this old timer claims to have spent thousands of days in Vegas in the distant past but somehow never played any table games never won at any table games and never received any casino WIN statements for winning anything.

Completely in the dark as to know Vegas works, thinks casino WIN statements are meaningless or may be altered by casino hosts.

Why the IRS HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC

Why the US Tax Court HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC


Actually, I never said "meaningless." That's a subjective term. I said not legally valid as poof of anything. Not accepted by the IRS or tax courts as necessarily accurate. Lacking in any guarantee of veracity.

And I never said "altered." A statement that might be prepped to requested specs (including date frames) doesn't have to be "altered." It just has to be printed up.

And for the record, I have spent somewhere north of 3000 nights in Las Vegas as a non-resident, including more than 800 in casinos and the remainder in places, like the Convention Center Lodge, within a stone's throw of a casino. I'm sorry MDawg feels as if spending time in casinos is evidence of expertise. I, of course, would never state such a thing, me being humble and all.

[PDub]

I have followed some of what Mdawg has posted here and elsewhere. From my perspective, he has at least posted something in the way of proof. A lot really when considering that no one else has posted anything at all. Plus didn't some witness him live?

[redietz]

I have followed some of what Mdawg has posted here and elsewhere. From my perspective, he has at least posted something in the way of proof. A lot really when considering that no one else has posted anything at all. Plus didn't some witness him live?

Proof of what? Playing? Yeah, MDawg plays baccarat. That's cool.

"Plus didn't some witness him live?" is quite the question. I suppose that's better than witnessing him dead, like Weekend at Bernie's. Most people who see him play probably witnessed him. That's my guess. Unless he got hold of that formula Griffin was using in West Sussex.

As to what would have been witnessed? Probably MDawg playing baccarat. I'm not sure of the significance of that. I don't announce my next checkers match or video poker session. Should there be something intrinsically interesting about me playing checkers or video poker? Maybe I should start paying witnesses?

In any event, I'm sure MDawg has provided proof that he indeed plays baccarat. He is to be commended for that. And he plays for reasonable stakes. Also to be commended, unless he's behind lifetime, of course. And even then, he may have gotten all kinds of non-material benefits like stress reduction or impressing potential mates or giving him some basis for launching web-wide probabilistically nigh impossible stories in hopes of hosting Jeopardy or getting a movie contract.

I gotta start paying people to watch me play video poker. Then I need some PR people, because Lord knows, I lack MDawg's PR commitment.

I'll get to work on it.

Meanwhile, be sure to check out those links I provided explicating how casino win/loss statements aren't legal proof of anything. I'm surprised everybody doesn't know that. It's common knowledge among experienced gamblers.

[MDawg]

I don't think REDietz understands that casino WIN statements or records are in fact quite accurate and that casino hosts have no access to them other than to view them, and casino hosts have no way to alter the records. All those thousands of hours spent in Vegas and REDietz never realized that, probably because he had no first hand experience with any sort of table game play.

Get a player card, play table games at some casinos, and you'll realize that those records are VERY accurate for many reasons. One, is that no casino in Vegas will issue a winning check (will give cash only) for anything other than a verified win. So, if some guy wins and requests a check there will be quite an uproar if the pit bosses failed to record the exact win, because absent a verified win - no check. At the same time, if a player bought in for cash and did not win anything, and the pit bosses inaccurately recorded a win, the player could in that situation get a check against unplayed chips and potentially put the casino on the hook for money laundering.

Secondly, when a player loses enough and has a loss rebate or airfare reimbursement in place, he is either given a concession (discount) against credit line markers owed, or straight out handed cash or casino check against the loss as a rebate. Again, for this reason that MONEY is it stake for the casinos the win/loss must be recorded very accurately. The casinos have absolutely no incentive to record a loss when there was none, just partly because they may be on the hook for potentially more comps against the loss, as well as loss rebates.

Here's another situation where a player's recorded loss comes into play: a player who has a credit line and has blown it may obtain a TTO - a temporary for that trip only credit line increase. But to get that increase, the player must have been documented to have lost his entire line. The casinos don't want to increase credit until someone needs it by losing, and have regulations against increasing credit lines permanently while a player is on property, so again - the accurate recording of the action - the win or loss - at the tables by the pit bosses becomes relevant in an important way to a casino operation.

The other day when I was playing the pit boss knew EXACTLY what I had in front of me, not even by counting my massive stack of yellow chips, but by simply looking in the tray and calculating what I must have based on what the pit boss knew should be in the tray. The pit bosses and dealers are being watched so closely that at a recent session surveillance phoned down and asked that the dealer stop turning the Baccarat deck towards me at an angle when I was allowed to cut, because surveillance was worried that I might be able to see some of the cards. Given that degree of scrutiny no pit boss or anyone else in the casino business is going to do anything other than record the action at the tables as accurately as possible. And at some casinos, such as Resorts World Vegas, the action is recorded / tracked automatically and electronically through RFID embedded chips.

As far as the Wizard witnessed session, MDawg was observed WINNING and playing for decent stakes - up to $2500. a hand. As one person put it,


In short, what REDietz's argument comes down to is - "I don't know, so I will just speculate."

[redietz]

I'm not speculating about anything. Again, for those wondering about the legal AND practical veracity of casino win/loss statements, I suggest you read:


Why the IRS HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC
Why the US Tax Court HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC


I'm not speculating about anything. These analyses speak for themselves.

And also again, every professional gambler knows this stuff. I'm not sure if MDawg has ever filed as a professional gambler, but I have.

Come to think of it, based on his professed winnings, MDawg should be filing as a professional gambler even if income from other endeavors dwarfs his gambling winnings. Interesting. He certainly qualifies based on his time spent and the significant amount of money won. It's certainly an odd decision if he chooses to NOT file as such.

[MDawg]

All you're saying is that WIN/LOSS statements are not reported to the IRS (which is good! from the point of view of most gamblers), and that they are not attested to under penalty of perjury. That doesn't mean that they are not extremely accurate, which is what they are. And again, if you'd played some table games under a player card you would know that these statements are in fact, especially these days, quite accurate.

I mean you look at a statement for a guy that shows that he lost say two hundred K in 2018, believe me, he lost! and you look at a statement for a guy that shows that he won eighty K in 2018, believe me, he won!

[redietz]

All you're saying is that WIN/LOSS statements are not reported to the IRS (which is good! from the point of view of most gamblers), and that they are not attested to under penalty of perjury. That doesn't mean that they are not extremely accurate, which is what they are. And again, if you'd played some table games under a player card you would know that these statements are in fact, especially these days, quite accurate.

I mean you look at a statement for a guy that shows that he lost say two hundred K in 2018, believe me, he lost! and you look at a statement for a guy that shows that he won eighty K in 2018, believe me, he won!

Why the IRS HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC


Why the US Tax Court HATES Casino Win/Loss Statements - Morrel Law PLLC



I suggest anyone interested in the veracity of casino win/loss statements and WHY they are not accepted legally as proof of anything simply read these two articles and draw his or her own conclusions.

The articles are in English and quite easy to understand.

[MDawg]

You just keep repeating the same thing. Win/loss statements for all the reasons noted above are very accurate. A casino has no incentive to under or overstate a win/loss statement and every reason to record a player�s action accurately.

You will also note the sum of my day by day sessions as reported over the course of the year for each casino correspond pretty closely to the year end WIN statements issued by the casinos.

[redietz]

The idea that casinos have "no incentive" to under or overstate a win/loss statement is just silly on the face of it. First of all, I would adjust the word "casino" and sub in instead "casino administrators" or "casino management" or "hosts" and ponder whether there are any incentives for individuals to under or overstate win/loss statements for particular clients when there is no penalty for doing so. I think reasonable people might come to the conclusion that in certain instances there is plenty of incentive.

If there is motive, opportunity, means, and no penalty for doing so....draw your own conclusions.

And as to veracity and problems with interpreting win/loss statements as evidence of anything, I simply ask readers to peruse the articles linked in previous posts.