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Thread: People who say that winning players do not get comp'ed

  1. #1
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    Default People who say that winning players do not get comp'ed

    Are not winning players - that is, they've never won consistently, such that they've never been in such a position to know!

    For the most part, the casino cares about consistent winners on what they view as games of skill, such as blackjack. Win too much, too consistently, at BJ, and you might be shown the door. This has happened to me - I have been banned at BJ. However, this is a direct action - the casino would not in general bother to shut off the flow of comps to consistent BJ winner, but rather, simply shut off his action at the tables.

    With games of what they view as chance though - such as Baccarat - the casino doesn't care how much the player wins or loses. They will keep comp'ing either based on the theoretical loss (for a winning player), or the actual loss (losing player). I've played Baccarat for years, and won at it consistently and never been shown the slightest impropriety. The casino always welcomes me back with open arms.

  2. #2
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    I spoke a couple days ago at length to my old friend who is an independent host in Vegas. He wants to handle my action at a couple of properties I have not played at before.

    Anyway, I recall someone at WOV challenging me when I mentioned the % that a Vegas casino comps based on theoretical loss. My friend, who has been in the business as a host for over twenty years, and as an independent for some ten years now, confirmed that:
    -casinos comp 30 to even up to 40% of theoretical loss.
    -casinos are set to comp only 10% of actual loss, although they will comp up to 15%.

    We discussed how I was recently in Vegas at a major property and stayed a month in the same large suite just at that one property alone, fully RFB comp'ed, and he said that based on my theoretical of about 80K for that leg of our trip, that the comps were right in line. He mentioned how if I had been at that casino and blown out my whole line the first few days and stopped playing, that there was no way they would have comp'ed me that long.

    Bottom line, a winning playing building up a high theo will almost always get comp'ed more than a losing player.

    He did say, interestingly, that one of the major casinos we stayed at last trip still has on the books a general rule that they will comp a maximum of only 10% of a player's line no matter what, but that no one has ever or does ever follow this rule. Obviously.

  3. #3
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    At Wynn they have something called "Wynn dollars." These are racked up pretty much ONLY through theoretical loss not through actual loss. I have over ten THOUSAND dollars of these now that we haven't even spent on anything. My wife is deciding what she might want. It is all based on theoretical loss, not actual.

  4. #4
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    I have had some follow up conversations with various hosts about this.

    35% of theo seems standard for the Strip. And up to 40% does happen sometimes.

    10 - 15% of actual loss also seems standard.

    So - yes - in other words, dump 50K, and you'll be comp'ed only about five grand at many Strip resorts. Figure, staying in a 600 - 1000 dollar a night suite, that doesn't cover much. However, put in say, 30 hours of play at an average 1000 bet and you should accumulate about 27K in theo loss, which translates to over ten grand in comps, without losing a nickel. (I know on one winning trip I WON about +55K, played seventy some hours at an average 1200 bet, and accumulated just under -80K in theo loss - which translated to about thirty grand in comps!)

    So yes, the guy who plays and wins or at least breaks even is going to accumulate in general a lot more comps than the straight loser. Just the way it works.

  5. #5
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    Default Perpetual COMP machine

    As the title implies, this is a discussion about how to keep comps going in casinos, beyond the typically weekend, or few day long trip. As someone who has spent now a half year in Vegas suites without paying for anything, and has done more or less the same thing going back years, I am well qualified to comment on this.

    First let�s discuss the two ways that casinos comp players. Obviously, play must be rated, via a Player Card, so anyone playing under the radar is not going to get any comps, let alone understand the comp system.

    Comps are used to pay for a player�s stay related expenses while in a resort, expenses such as room food beverage (the three RFBs), spa & salon (massage, skincare, haircuts and styling, manicure, pedicure, etc.), events (concerts, sports, and so on) and, at the upper limit of the comp spectrum, special activities arranged for the player.

    A player�s casino action also results in invitations to special events, tournaments and the receipt of gift cards, promotional (free play) chips at the tables, or free spin play at slots. Some casinos build up points or �casino dollars� based on play that may be used to buy food and retail at either casino shops, or online.

    Comps are handed out based on two different bases:

    1) Actual loss. Typically 10% of an actual loss is available for a player�s comps.
    a. This was up to 15% during certain periods, such as for example last year during COVID some resorts were giving 15% of actual loss, but 10% is the norm.

    2) Theoretical (theo) loss. Typically 35% and up to 40% of a player�s theoretical loss is available for comps. Theo loss is calculated based on what the player is expected to lose, based on average bet times number of hours played against whatever the house edge is on the game being played.

    For a weekend or other relatively short play, either of these will do to cover a guest�s resort expenses. But for extended plays, really the only sustainable or even viable way to keep the comp machine going is via comps earned via theoretical loss action.

    Actual loss, when considering high end casino stays in, for example, $1000. a night suites, notwithstanding food and beverage charges, just won�t sustain an extended stay. For example, to cover a 10 day long stay in a casino in a large suite, about $15,000. in comps are needed, if it is a nice stay with decent food and spa services included. To earn $15,000. in comps via a loss, $150,000. in actual loss is needed � and most players don�t even have credit lines or cash available to gamble at that level, let alone are able to afford losing $150K in the first place.

    When you get into stay lengths of longer than 10 days, it becomes even more unlikely that a player would be earning his keep via actual loss, as the required loss numbers to earn all those comps pile up even higher.

    No, what really earns the comps, and keeps the comp machine going, is not loss, but action, that is, play that results in either a win, or just the average loss attributable to the house edge.

    Typically, player club points and casino dollars, too, are earned at a high rate pretty much by play, via theoretical loss, not via actual loss.

    For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps. $30K in comps is more than enough to cover a very long stay, even a month long stay, if the suite is coming in at say, $600. or even $800. a day (which remember - sometimes the rate of which the suite is calculated for purposes of comps is lower than the "rack rate" which a non-gaming hotel guest might have to pay for the suite), which leaves room for food beverage and spa too.

    And this is why, one guy might sit at the table and lose five grand, and get $500. in comps, and another might sit at the table, win barely $200., and earn a theo loss which would result in higher comps. Theo loss is the way to go, for max comps.

    Granted, if you want to dine on caviar daily, in a villa, even this model is not going to work as far as keeping the perpetual comp machine going, unless you step up your average bet even higher than a thousand a hand. But the perpetual comp machine model � always involves building up theoretical loss. Blowouts do not lead to much comps. Continued play, does.

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