Do other players affect the outcome?

In blackjack, I used to think that other players misplaying basic strategy affect the outcome but I've realized for some time that they do not, it's just another card exposed to keep track of for purposes of the count and flow. Other players no longer affect me whatsoever at the BJ player. I just do my thing.

At Baccarat, it's another story. I tend to be the only one in the room winning at Bacc. so it comes down to "Who do I trust? ME!" and not wanting to be influenced by other players. You have some big bet ready for the Bank and some punk comes along and tosses a hundred on the Player, or some player who hasn't won a hand in the last five puts an even bigger bet on the Bank before you place yours, and it's hard for such events, especially as they pile up, to not affect your play.

So if possible I try to play earlier in the day before the high limit room fills with the drunks and other high rollers who seem to be there just to dump as much money as possible in as short a time as possible.

After all, Who put this thing together?

I simply do better when I am alone and making my own decisions versus having other players at the table: players who tend to be losing but will influence your betting decision, since Baccarat is not a forced bet game, you may decide to bet or not to bet, and then of course you pick which side to bet on. So obviously what other players do or don't do may influence you psychologically. I mean, you really want to bet the Bank and some guy comes in and tosses four five thousand dollar chips on Player, it shouldn't make any difference, but it does. Or someone tosses a small bet opposing you and it just throws you off.

As an aside, what I like about Bacc is that in Baccarat unlike BJ, you either win by the points or lose by the points, there is no busting, and especially, there is no situation where you bust and the dealer also busts but you still lose (which is part of the house advantage in BJ, the other being the ace on the bottom BJ). Plus also the fact that you may sit there and not even bet every hand, you may ask for as many free hands as you wish, or just bet the table minimum until you really want to bet.

It affects resolve which affects results. I mean, we could say the same about if you play a casino game with only an hour to play before leaving for the plane trying to recoup ten grand, are your decisions going to be as solid, as if you have a week remaining to win the same amount? Or if you don't even care about ten grand and put it out of your mind and are just playing the new session no longer chasing? All of these affect results, correct - if you let them affect you.

Superstitions: no superstition affects anything unless you allow it to. But, in the end, most of us do allow superstitions to affect us, and in the same way we are often affected by the play of others.

You would be surprised how many players argue, convincingly, that such "roving bands of punks" are shills. I don't believe it, but the fact that many high rollers do believe it is food for thought. Ever seen "The Cooler"? such casino shills did use to exist. I don't think they exist anymore, but others would disagree. Did Coolers ever really cool the cards? of course not, but still, they existed as casino shills.

You're playing blackjack, you place your bet. The guy next to you bets - whatever. Once you have gotten over the fallacy that his play affects the long term outcome of the shoe, and accept that all that really matter are the count and flow of the cards, it doesn't take much if any effort to just play your game. It's you against the dealer. Your cards won't be the same as the other players' anyway.

But Baccarat, you're three banks into a progression and have been pressing your bet. Now some guy who is at your table looks at the prior play and decides for whatever reason that the bank isn't going to go any more. Or say, he never thought it was going to go past one anyway, and has been betting against the Bank the whole time. It's easy to say that such actions won't affect you, but they will. At a minimum it might make you back down on your press. Anyway, right or wrong all I will say is that when I have really cleaned up the most on long bank runs, long player runs or long chops, I've been either the biggest player at the table, or alone. When you're talking about a game where people may bet against each other, it always affects your resolve in some way.

Some Bacc. players even come in there and plead with you not to bet against them, or turn it into a testosterone contest. None of that is conducive to clear decision making, especially for someone like me who tends to win at Baccarat and doesn't want to be influenced by losers.


I don't really play Craps anymore, but the table is cheering, everyone's winning, pass after pass, and some bozo comes in and tosses a nickel on the Don't. That puts a damper on things!

Flat betting any casino game, you are destined for a loss over time due to the house edge. Flat betting is also boring. Plus what could be more boring than a pretty much assured loss? Jumping the bet between low and high ranges doesn't guarantee a win, but at least gives you a chance.

Listen, if you were playing a coin toss truly 50-50, no house edge, would you expect to ever win anything flat betting? So how could you win anything flat betting with a house edge in place.

Of course, what gamblers who have never won at Baccarat will never understand is that Baccarat is not the same as a coin toss, roulette wheel, craps roll - the cards are fixed and if you have a good shoe, you may really clean the house out. It would be like if the slots wheels were fixed to follow a certain pattern and simply by happening to show up at a certain time you would be guaranteed a big win, versus each slots pull being an entirely independent event. You routinely hear of millions won in Baccarat, happens every week in the big casinos, you don't hear about that happening much in BJ, craps or roulette.

I think you have to be there really playing, playing hard to understand both the issue, and the game. Baccarat.

BTW private table is for those with a minimum $500K line (at some casinos $250K will do it). I am not there, nor would want to be. I do fine with my $50K lines.

And also BTW, some of those private table players are so superstitious that they won't allow anyone to stand behind them or even watch when they are playing. I'm not like that, by any means, but I just prefer to play alone.

And also, these days I am not necessarily the big player if you read my posts carefully you'd understand that this is part of the problem. The big player gets to open the cards. The smaller players generally follow the big player, although there are some punks, as mentioned, who toss a single black chip on an opposing bet just because. I don't follow anyone, I do my own thing, but opposing bets and inability to open the cards myself, and stop and go action as the game slows down due to drunks, usually do not inure to my benefit.

In fact I had this sequence of cards that last night on the last trip (the night where I started the late morning up about 60K over all for the entire trip, ended the night dumping 36K, leaving me at plus 24K for the entire trip) where I could have ended up FAR ahead but didn't bet right, and it might have been partly due to another player's stepping in. There was a sequence when it went Bank Bank Player Player for over ten hands in a row, five sets, just so easy 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2. I bet every single hand once I got it, and won for a thousand a hand, which was ten grand, but after the first few this guy stepped in and plopped a five thousand chip on the same side, no big deal, didn't affect me after all he was betting with me, but he actually said to me, "If you bet ten thousand, you can open." It was more of a good natured taunt, than anything else, but in this case he was actually Right, I was betting far too low during a sequence when the shoe was mirror perfect. He bet only the one hand, won, and left, but while he was gone and I was winning a K a hand I kept telling the pit boss, "I'm saving the casino money," and he'd reply each time, "We appreciate it." It was like an inane Abbott and Costello routine. As this was going on I really knew that I was being none too smart and needed to step it up, even a few K per hand, which would have placed me far enough ahead to quit for the session ahead for the day, but instead I kept playing the same single K stupidly, winning ten grand but ending up not far enough ahead to call it a day (not quite at where I started the day), which in the long run ended up causing my demise for that session, because later during a different shoe when the shoe was horrible I bet big and lost repeatedly, and finally just gave up and quit.

This was a session where a friend of mine who was playing at an adjoining table later claimed with conviction that "it was all fake" that all the other players had been shills, but he's a conspiracy theorist I don't buy any of that. The reason I lost that night was due to player error, I bet big when the shoe s*cked, and played small when the shoe was easy and following easy to follow patterns. And part of the reason was due to confusion from series of weird high betting players who kept coming in and throwing money around randomly, mostly losing but also sometimes even winning a few big hands in a row.

I know I play best alone, I mean I had WEEKS of sessions playing more or less alone where I walked away ahead EVERY SINGLE TIME. There were a few sessions where I won even playing with others, but for the most part the presence of the moths circling my light is detrimental. None of those other players is winning, so why would I want to be around them.

Again, if you are a Craps player and understand the analogy of the table is cheering, pass after pass is happening, and some bozo comes along and throws a nickel on the Don't, then you would get part of what I am getting at, Baccarat-wise.